I had been reading through old posts, and I can across this one.
https://www.gvgo.ca/forum/grower-discussion/pollination
It has a lot of science behind it, but it is saying that the size of plant won't really a fact the maximum fruit size. It appears, to me, to say that the number of cells in the fruit, is the only thing that really matters, when determining fruit potential. Since we can't actually see the number of cells, I think that this is even more luck, than anything else, but I was wondering your opinions.
The other comment I have, over 100 2000 pounders have been grown, and I am pretty sure they were all in over 500 sq ft. This means people get more lucky ina larger area?
My opinion is that the fruit has a determinant ceiling for weight, and this can't be changed, which is why fruit growth taper late in the season, but I think that the plant size is needed to help the fruit continue to grow until that "ceiling", and not taper out quite so quickly. It also says that there is no proof that giant varieties need giant plants to grow big, but they are better at creating a sink for the growth. This would also implies they need bigger plant, because the bigger the plant, the greater the sink can be. Also, it says that the pumpkin with the best plumbing, no tthat ist solar panels wins the weigh off. While I agree that the plant size doesn't directly create fruit size, the plant does help that plumbing move the energy faster. If you have amazing plumbing, all focused into one sink, it can't do a thing without the water pressure at the other end.
Plants run on photosynthesis, without leaves, they cannot get the energy to cycle through the plant, and grow fruit. With that in mind, it makes more sense that an established plant, even terminated after the fruit starts would be better. If the fruit is 12 feet out, and on a large plant, it already has the potential for its final weight. Then, if you grow the plant until day 15, it hasn't started to be a big sink yet, and will not yet compete with the leaf growth, as long as you have the nutrients. Then termination of growth will create a sink in the fruit, and let it take over. You would then have bigger newer growth, that would let you keep that pumpkin moving towards its "ceiling", for a longer time.
So I think that the plant size, at pollination, is not a definition, but more of guidelines, for the fruit weight, and will be greatly influenced by how well the plant continues to push the fruit later in the season. This is just my 2 cents. I would love it if someone else could chime in with their opinion on the subject.
Largest pumpkins have over 1000 sq ft, as Ian and Stuart Paton have proven this year, with almost 1200 sq ft of plant. However, they have also said they won't pollinate until at least 17 ft, or something, so maybe it is better to have some plant after poll. I agree that pumpkins are one of the few that need a huge space. I was asking about wether the size of plant creates a ceiling for weight, or a guaranteed weight.
Thanks for the response!
Interesting topic, Noah, to which nobody knows the definite answer. Sometimes it is handy to take things to the extreme. What would happen if you had no leaves at all or had 2000 sq ft of them? Regardless of what science says, practice says that the largest pumpkins have all had a plant around 700 sq ft.
In 2009 I grew a WR marrow using a pruning system which would allow all growth to occur before pollination and none afterwards. It was a new technique as all other growers pollinated earlier while the plant was still growing. As long as you can keep the older leaves healthy, I see no benefit in having newer growth.
Then in 2019 I grew the world's largest field pumpkin. Hot weather had severely stunted plant growth. Finally after pollinating a fruit, cooler weather caused the vines between the stump and the fruit to develop. They continued to grow right up to harvest time (again, only in front of the fruit). By harvest time I finally had my plot filled, but now with new, healthy growth.
In 2007 I grew a WR squash in a greenhouse. The size of the greenhouse dictated that there could be no growth after pollination. I managed to keep the plant relatively healthy until the end. The plant was smaller than 500 sq ft.
In conclusion, I see no benefit to growth past the fruit after pollination, but to replace older leaves, it might be handy to have new growth later on in the season in front of the fruit. For this reason I sometimes let one or two tertiary vines grow on the first set of secondaries.
To make things complicated, in the world of other giant veg, there is sometimes no need for a large plant at all. The largest cucumbers are grown on a few feet of main vine with only a few leaves. This all has to do with the assimilate/sink relationship, which is different for every type of vegetable and possibily even for varieties. In general cucumbers have a relationship of 0.35 which means that if let grown the cucumber fruit will only receive 35% of the feed it needs as the plant cannot produce enough or the plant itself takes up too much. For this reason normal cucumbers will only grow to about 35% of their potential if the plant is left to grow. For tomatoes this is 0.50 which means that the fruit receives half of what it needs if left to grow on its own. It would be interesting to know what AGs have. At this point I think that growth after a pollination is taking away from the sink and will only be beneficial if for some reason the growth in front of the pollination is (or has become) inadequate.
Don't know if you read my whole post, it was kind of long, but I was kind of getting to, if you have it bigger at poll, like Landry said, then you get a bigger ceiling for weight. I think you still need the biggest plant possible to get a record, as it was grown in about 1100 sq ft.
Mainly I wanted to know what people thought about the plant size after poll contributing to the fruit push. The ceiling is preset, but is not a guarantee. Would the extra plant after poll help reach that ceiling, as in have better, longer weight gains?
I agree that healthy plant is key and heavy feed is needed, but I also believe that the plant before poll is the same as after, except only after the fruits pollinated. When it gets pollinated, the ceiling is set by the sq footage. A 1000 sq ft before poll is better than 500 sq ft grown before poll, and then 500 more after poll.
Thanks for the response!
Hello? Anyone?