Calling Pumpkins light or heavy

[Kirk C]

I have read many references to pumpkins lately that indicated 2% light or 4% heavy. Should it not read that anything withing 5% of the chart value total be called on chart as the chart is only accurate to 5% is it not, one way or the other. The 5% is put in for those of use who like to "Kirk" the tape and maybe bet an extra inch out of thin air so to speak. Outside of that I would go with the heavy or light.

Kirk

[Andy H]

I would say more like 10-15% either way Kirk. The OTT is a great benchmarking method but far from accurate. Sometimes my frustration shows when seemingly great crosses get ignored because they went 5% light when they actually fell within expected parameters.

[Kirk C]

Thats my whole Point Andy, the chart says 5 either way but we still look at a pumpkin that went 3% light with our noses stuck in the air. It actually went on chart to what it was suppose to in the range.

Kirk

[cowpie]

I suspect that I'm a bit like that too. 3% light? I'm not growing it. I seem to forget that there's a 5% leeway either way with the charts. A better mind set is to think about track record of the patch it was grown in and the weather in which it was grown. The more I get into what Russ has been talking about lately, the more I side with environment having more to do with "heavy or light to the charts".

[donkin]

5% one way or another doesn't bother me in the least.I like to check out the track record of the growers patch also. Maybe the environment does have alot to do with pumpkins going heavy or light but i have to admit i was blown away this year when Bob Liggett's pumpkin went so light. I think he has a reputation for putting out pumpkins that go well over the chart. If that pumpkin had gone heavy i wonder what the 1375 Liggett would have sold for this year?

[Pumpkin Shepherd]

Donkin  I posted a few days ago on BP about the 1375 Liggett and why nobody wants to plant it (I picked one up for $30) and the Doc replyed as to why he thought it might have gone light.

http://www.bigpumpkins.com/MsgBoard/ViewThread.asp?b=19&p=339811

I think it's crazy when people don't want to plant a seed that has proven to grow past 1600 pounds just because it went light.

[donkin]

No disrespect but to me if a pumpkin goes very light in a patch that the majority of time puts out pumpkins over the chart.Guess what? I wonder what it will do in a patch that very rarely ever puts out a pumpkin that goes heavy? When i say i am not trying to disrespect anyone i mean it. This is only my opinion and as a matter of fact i'm thinking about buying a couple of 1375 Liggetts to have just in case.lol

[Big Kahuna 8]

No disrespect to anyone but if your pumpkins always go light there is something wrong with your growing conditions. While I don't dispute the possibility of a genetic factor at play I remain concerned that most growers completely over look local growing conditions.

I know sometimes I sound like a broken record on this stuff. Folks should consider what is easily provable and for me that is growing conditions. Genetics is simply not a solid answer IMHO. I hear growers talk all the time about this seed line or that mother with this pollinator. I question the provability of each of these statements.

The first rule in growing has always been to take care of your soil. Amend and test and test some more to find out what it is that is causing your fruit to go light. When you grow a 1385 that goes light or splits wide open it is not genetics. You can't make the argument that the same seed that goes heavy in Phil's patch goes light in mine because of genetics. Yet time after time growers make this assumption.

If you want to learn how to control your conditions dive into the soil you have and figure it out. Test your irrigation water and figure it out. Test your plant and test again to find out what nutrients are not being transported in the Xylem. Then Modify your pumpkins growing conditions accordingly. This will always have more benefit than selecting the next 898...

The fact remains that there are a host of conditions which can result in a light pumpkin. In fact far too many to list in a short posting. Uptake, weather, irrigation, sink source relationship are a few of these factors and there are many more. Think out the box and try to list all of the causes here on this message board. I will try to jump in and explain each one of them you guys post...

P.S. I will be talking about this topic at the GVGO seminar next month.

[phunt]

We look forward to hearing more Russ. The GVGO Seminar should be great event, so don't miss it. We'll see you Friday, Russ.

Phil

[Andy H]

Well said Russ, wish I could make the seminar. Maybe next year.

[Starrfarms]

The OTT chart is a great tool for estimating the size of the pumpkin in the garden, but like all tools it should be left there come weigh-off day. 

I love using the OTT charts in-season for monitoring fruit growth, but feel it has no place in any official results.  At best the chart is a poor method for determining size due to the extreme variability in fruit shape.  Then take into account the person(s) measuring.  How much training do they get and what is the margin of error there?  To be legit, the OTT margin of error and the person(s) measuring margin of error need to be combined to get a true margin. How many times has the person measuring at the weigh-off gotten the same inches you did in the garden?  It has never happened with any of my fruit

The OTT has almost become the exclusive factor for seed selection.  Many great seeds are ignored while others are highly sought after, and for what?   A haphazard guess at best. 

The 1375 is a great example of the overuse and over dependence of the  OTT chart.  There weren't enough 1041.5 McKies to go around at a cost of $300 when that seed produced the 1631.  What has it done since?  Not much.  Now look at the 1375.  Produced a bigger pumpkin, and ORANGE no less, and very few want it because it went light.  It still grew a 1600 #+ fruit.  How sought after do you think it would be if the % heavy or light factor was omitted?

[Andy H]

Best post on this site this year. A guy like Phil Hunt deserves a lot of credit for creating the conditions in his patch to allow a great seed like the 901 to reach it's potential. All seeds have potential, great seeds have great potential, but that's all they have. It takes a grower with experience, optimum soil and a little co-operation from mother nature to allow that seed to attain it's final weight. The 901 and other great seeds don't need to pitch % heavy.
The results were the fruition of their hard work.  I never heard anyone say they wanted a 1068 Wallace because it went heavy to the charts, it just produced heavy pumpkins and a lot of personal bests, like the 901 Hunt will in the next couple of years. % heavy has nothing to do with it.

[pumpa mannen]

Nice topic!
Even if the pumpkin does estimate over or under chart is the fruit still the same size.
The pumpkin size is still the same, but of course at weigh off its more fun if the pumpkin goes 20% heavy instead 20% light. So im not after the heavy when i try to find the top genetic. Its more interesting what the fruit has in the genetic. and what it have grown.
of course, a heavy fruit doesnt split so often. a light fruit have bigger chance to spit.
heavy fruits often get very thick walls and cant grow into world class .
So i would like to recommend grow light fruit if you want big.
Heavy fruits grow small. light fruits grow big .
Just a theory, welcome to say what you think about it

Albin

[Dutch Brad]

I'm with Russ on this totally.

I invented the marrow measuring chart which is somewhat more complex and is not a simple adding up of measurements. What I found out (and is basic math), the bigger they get, the less accurate. One inch will make a big difference in weight and that will be multiplied by measurement errors which are easier made.

Seed choosing/purchasing for many is following trends. I just wrote an article called "Growing brains" for the EGVGA that deals with trends. Maybe an article for the next GVGO issue.

[Kirk C]

Well its good to see my early morning brain fart has garnered much interest and the comments are great. I look forward to further posts on this.

Kirk